Unicode strings update
Hi. I just thought I would post a little update on what's happpening with the Unicode library I started a thread about a little while ago. (I apologize for not replying as much as I should have done in that thread, but I have been completely buried in work lately, and simply haven't had the time. =\ ) My college (HiG) has now basically approved the project as a bachelors thesis (at least for the time being), and it is looking very likely that we will go through with it. There's one little snag though. HiG would like to have one person from the boost community functioning as a "contact person" for the project. I'm not sure exactly what kind of workload that imply for such a person (I will try to find out very soon), but I am fairly certain it will just be a matter of answering a few e-mails from them from time to time. After all, the main development will be done in collaboration with the community as a whole, and not that single person. What I basically want to know is, would anyone out there like to take on that resposibillity? I don't think this is an absolute requirement for final approval, but it sure would help! =) Let me just finish off by thanking for all comments you guys made in my first thread. I'm in the process of compiling a list of all the things you pointed out there, and I will most certainly take everything said into concideration when the development (hopefully) gets on the way. As always... Any comments are welcome! ;) Regards - Erik
On Nov 4, 2004, at 7:47 PM, Erik Wien wrote:
will go through with it. There's one little snag though. HiG would like to have one person from the boost community functioning as a "contact person" for the project. I'm not sure exactly what kind of workload that imply for such a person (I will try to find out very soon), but I am fairly certain it will just be a matter of answering a few e-mails from them from time to time.
Interestingly enough, at the Boost workshop at OOPSLA last week we discussed doing this for anyone bringing their first library up for review. A mentorship program, so to speak, where seasoned Boosters would help navigate the review process in the hope of bringing more libraries up to formal review. Here is one question for you, however: do you think that this "contact person" needs to have solid knowledge of Unicode to be helpful for you? Doug
Doug Gregor wrote:
Interestingly enough, at the Boost workshop at OOPSLA last week we discussed doing this for anyone bringing their first library up for review. A mentorship program, so to speak, where seasoned Boosters would help navigate the review process in the hope of bringing more libraries up to formal review.
Interesting. Would such a "mentor" be available throughout the development process, or would this only be for the last push towards the review?
Here is one question for you, however: do you think that this "contact person" needs to have solid knowledge of Unicode to be helpful for you?
Not necessarily. I'm not quite sure as of yet what being our contact person would imply (waiting for a response from HiG), so I can't say for sure, but me asking for a contact person is basically to keep my college happy! ;) I highly doubt we will be doing any development in collaboration with that person specifically, but rather the entire community, so strictly speaking, deep knowledge of Unicode shouldn't really be required. I will get back to you on that when I know for sure though! Regards - Erik
On Nov 5, 2004, at 8:44 AM, Erik Wien wrote:
Doug Gregor wrote:
Interestingly enough, at the Boost workshop at OOPSLA last week we discussed doing this for anyone bringing their first library up for review. A mentorship program, so to speak, where seasoned Boosters would help navigate the review process in the hope of bringing more libraries up to formal review.
Interesting. Would such a "mentor" be available throughout the development process, or would this only be for the last push towards the review?
I'm not sure... it probably depends on the mentor:submitter ratio, but longer would be better. The moderators will probably discuss the specifics off-list and we'll come to the group with a fully-baked proposal in the near future.
Here is one question for you, however: do you think that this "contact person" needs to have solid knowledge of Unicode to be helpful for you?
Not necessarily. I'm not quite sure as of yet what being our contact person would imply (waiting for a response from HiG), so I can't say for sure, but me asking for a contact person is basically to keep my college happy! ;) I highly doubt we will be doing any development in collaboration with that person specifically, but rather the entire community, so strictly speaking, deep knowledge of Unicode shouldn't really be required. I will get back to you on that when I know for sure though!
Well, it sounds like Eric's your man. Doug
On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:01:55 -0500, Doug Gregor wrote
On Nov 5, 2004, at 8:44 AM, Erik Wien wrote:
Doug Gregor wrote:
Interestingly enough, at the Boost workshop at OOPSLA last week we discussed doing this for anyone bringing their first library up for review. A mentorship program, so to speak, where seasoned Boosters would help navigate the review process in the hope of bringing more libraries up to formal review.
Interesting. Would such a "mentor" be available throughout the development process, or would this only be for the last push towards the review?
I'm not sure... it probably depends on the mentor:submitter ratio, but longer would be better. The moderators will probably discuss the specifics off-list and we'll come to the group with a fully-baked proposal in the near future.
I think that to do much good, the mentor has to be available throughout the development, but I agree with Doug that we need to work out specifics and recruit willing volunteers. And, of course, experienced boosters with free time are a fairly limited commodity -- so we have to be careful. BTW, my full summary of the workshop results should be posted in the next day or two. Jeff
Erik Wien wrote:
Hi. I just thought I would post a little update on what's happpening with the Unicode library I started a thread about a little while ago. (I apologize for not replying as much as I should have done in that thread, but I have been completely buried in work lately, and simply haven't had the time. =\ )
My college (HiG) has now basically approved the project as a bachelors thesis (at least for the time being), and it is looking very likely that we will go through with it. There's one little snag though. HiG would like to have one person from the boost community functioning as a "contact person" for the project. I'm not sure exactly what kind of workload that imply for such a person (I will try to find out very soon), but I am fairly certain it will just be a matter of answering a few e-mails from them from time to time. After all, the main development will be done in collaboration with the community as a whole, and not that single person. What I basically want to know is, would anyone out there like to take on that resposibillity? I don't think this is an absolute requirement for final approval, but it sure would help! =)
Let me just finish off by thanking for all comments you guys made in my first thread. I'm in the process of compiling a list of all the things you pointed out there, and I will most certainly take everything said into concideration when the development (hopefully) gets on the way.
Feel free to give them my name. I would be happy to serve as your contact person. -- Eric Niebler Boost Consulting www.boost-consulting.com
Feel free to give them my name. I would be happy to serve as your contact person.
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the offer! I have just sent a mail to my college to clear up what being our contact person would actually imply. I wouldn't want you to sign up for something without knowing exactly what the workload (if any) would be. I'll post their reply here as soon as they mail me back. Again, thanks for the offer! - Erik
On 11/4/04 7:47 PM, "Erik Wien" <wien@start.no> wrote: [SNIP]
My college (HiG) has now basically approved the project as a bachelors thesis (at least for the time being), and it is looking very likely that we will go through with it. There's one little snag though. HiG would like to have one person from the boost community functioning as a "contact person" for the project. I'm not sure exactly what kind of workload that imply for such a person (I will try to find out very soon), but I am fairly certain it will just be a matter of answering a few e-mails from them from time to time. After all, the main development will be done in collaboration with the community as a whole, and not that single person. What I basically want to know is, would anyone out there like to take on that resposibillity? I don't think this is an absolute requirement for final approval, but it sure would help! =) [TRUNCATE]
[Summary: Erik wants to contribute a Unicode strings project, but he wants it to simultaneously be his college thesis.] Would taking on this project be the best idea for Boost? We wouldn't be able to help Erik too much to prevent accusations of cheating. But what happens if Erik proceeds too slowly for someone? They can always do their own Boost Unicode project, but that may bring up the cheating problem. Basically our Unicode needs will be locked into Erik hands, and neither assistance nor competition can occur unless Erik withdraws the project from either Boost or his college. -- Daryle Walker Mac, Internet, and Video Game Junkie darylew AT hotmail DOT com
Daryle Walker wrote:
[Summary: Erik wants to contribute a Unicode strings project, but he wants it to simultaneously be his college thesis.]
Would taking on this project be the best idea for Boost? We wouldn't be able to help Erik too much to prevent accusations of cheating.
That's a problem for Erik ;-) Nobody can stop you from suggesting ideas.
But what happens if Erik proceeds too slowly for someone? They can always do their own Boost Unicode project, but that may bring up the cheating problem.
Again, it can only be a problem for him. Besides, do you have a specific "someone" in mind? So far, everybody agrees that Unicode is important but nobody has the time.
Basically our Unicode needs will be locked into Erik hands, and neither assistance nor competition can occur unless Erik withdraws the project from either Boost or his college.
Basically, this depends on requirements for thethis. I really doubt that thethis will consist of 40-page printout of source. It would have to discuss approaches, problems, solutions and so on, and that's what would be interesting in such a thethis. And then email on this list in not worse that a published article -- a thethis always refers or based on a number of articles and can use emails in the same way. - Volodya
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 13:09:20 +0300, Vladimir Prus <ghost@cs.msu.su> wrote:
Daryle Walker wrote:
[Summary: Erik wants to contribute a Unicode strings project, but he wants it to simultaneously be his college thesis.]
Would taking on this project be the best idea for Boost? We wouldn't be able to help Erik too much to prevent accusations of cheating.
That's a problem for Erik ;-) Nobody can stop you from suggesting ideas.
But just judging from the amount of conflicting ideas expressed in the previous thread, I think there is a lot to be evaluated and decided on; plus, Erik has its own ideas too. Building on and referring to a publicly available discussion does not have to be a problem for an academic work, I think.
But what happens if Erik proceeds too slowly for someone? They can always do their own Boost Unicode project, but that may bring up the cheating problem.
Again, it can only be a problem for him. Besides, do you have a specific "someone" in mind? So far, everybody agrees that Unicode is important but nobody has the time.
At the start of the previous thread, I talked about a draft for a Unicode library I was working on. I'm not sure that's on anybody's mind, though. :-) Anyway, I have for now suspended the effort, mainly because I have come to believe that my initial ideas are not necessarily the best ones. I'm looking forward to participating in the discussion about Erik's library though.
Basically our Unicode needs will be locked into Erik hands, and neither assistance nor competition can occur unless Erik withdraws the project from either Boost or his college.
Basically, this depends on requirements for thethis. I really doubt that thethis will consist of 40-page printout of source. It would have to discuss approaches, problems, solutions and so on, and that's what would be interesting in such a thethis. And then email on this list in not worse that a published article -- a thethis always refers or based on a number of articles and can use emails in the same way.
I agree fully. Furthermore, I think even preliminary designs for a Boost library, and especially an important one like a Unicode library, should be discussed on the mailing list. Should Erik's college not allow this, I think the discussion will have to be done later, possibly resulting on a total redesign. Regards, Rogier
"Rogier van Dalen" <rogiervd@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e094f9eb041106032817bf64ed@mail.gmail.com...
Erik has its own ideas too.
I'm not a bot you know! ;) :D
Building on and referring to a publicly available discussion does not have to be a problem for an academic work, I think.
Exacly. In fact, most academic work is done that way. You base a discussion on a known problem, take in all available litterature on the subject, and draw your own conclusions based on that. Even if this litterature is different ideas posted by people here, instead of published articles, it's basically the same thing.
At the start of the previous thread, I talked about a draft for a Unicode library I was working on. I'm not sure that's on anybody's mind, though. :-)
Oh, that's right! I meant to ask you for further information about that, but the thread went in 50 different directions about that time, and it simply slipped my mind. :\
Anyway, I have for now suspended the effort, mainly because I have come to believe that my initial ideas are not necessarily the best ones. I'm looking forward to participating in the discussion about Erik's library though.
Great to hear! :) The more people contributing ideas, the better the library will suit everybody's needs.
I agree fully. Furthermore, I think even preliminary designs for a Boost library, and especially an important one like a Unicode library, should be discussed on the mailing list. Should Erik's college not allow this, I think the discussion will have to be done later, possibly resulting on a total redesign.
Yeah.. As I said in another mail, I don't think this will be a problem. It's in everybody's interest that we have a public discussion on the design and implementation the library. After all, if this was a commercial project for a paying customer, you would of course talk to the customer throughout the development to ensure that all requirements are fulfilled. This project should be no different.
"Vladimir Prus" <ghost@cs.msu.su> wrote in message news:cmi7sg$6of$1@sea.gmane.org...
Basically, this depends on requirements for thethis. I really doubt that thethis will consist of 40-page printout of source. It would have to discuss approaches, problems, solutions and so on, and that's what would be interesting in such a thethis. And then email on this list in not worse that a published article -- a thethis always refers or based on a number of articles and can use emails in the same way.
Exactly.. A very important part of this thesis will be the discussion around the chosen design. Wether the different approaches we discuss are suggested by someone on a mailing list, in an article, or simply thought up by us, is not really that important, as long as we don't take credit for something someone else has done (Wether that is code, design ideas, or something else).
"Daryle Walker" <darylew@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:BDB1F6B8.11B5E%>
Would taking on this project be the best idea for Boost? We wouldn't be able to help Erik too much to prevent accusations of cheating.
This will not be a problem. Not as far as I have been able to tell anyway. My college is fully aware that this will be an open-source project, and that decisions on design and the like will be done in collaboration with the community. This is not the first time this type of development has been done as a bachelor's thesis here. As long as we don't take credit for something that someone in the community did (and we certainly won't!), there shouldn't be a problem associated with this.
But what happens if Erik proceeds too slowly for someone?
Well.. That's not really my problem! ;) If the project goes forward, it WILL be completed within may 2005, or else I fail my degree. (I don't want to do that!) I seriously doubt someone else will have the time to develop a competing library and submit it before that time. Remember, we will be 2 guys working full time on this one entire semester. But anyone is of course free to try if they want to. I won't stand in the way.
They can always do their own Boost Unicode project, but that may bring up the cheating problem. Basically our Unicode needs will be locked into Erik hands, and neither assistance nor competition can occur unless Erik withdraws the project from either Boost or his college.
Not really. Boost may freely choose to reject our library if it isn't any good. Someone else may also start their own library if they choose, but as I said, I doubt someone will have the needed time available. In fact, the reason I proposed this in the first place was because there was a genuine need for such a library, but apparently no one had the time to develop it.
participants (4)
-
Daryle Walker -
Doug Gregor -
Eric Niebler -
Erik Wien -
Jeff Garland -
Rogier van Dalen -
Vladimir Prus